Mandatory Milf: "I've Been a Bad Girl..."
Matisguy on 11/29/2021 11:05:05 AM
Episode last modified by Matisguy on 11/29/2021 11:05:05 AM
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forsure (10)
Hey, so I see that you've set this up in the direction of Jon ending up being this permanently horny thing, where most of his misery comes from just needing release too much. To be honest this is a little mutually exclusive with a pretty prominent kink of mine - feeling sexualised even when NOT in the mood. I think I'll write a sister episode to this one rather than continuing here but that decision has not come lightly cause I think it'd be awesome to keep collaborating. So if you feel like adding to that other one maybe we can find a common ground later on?
Sure. It's not like I'm all that committed to any one direction or vision for this thing anyway; I'm kinda playing it by ear, thinking "Oh this effect sounds cool!" And piling it on. But yeah, whatever I had in mind is kinda way less important to me than having a good, cooperative collaborator, so, sure, I'll see what I can make out of any other sister episodes.
Yeah I understand what you're getting at and I believe it's got a lot to do with the common belief that a story has got to have some sort of arc, with the characters being actively driven towards a something, either to escape a predicament or to accomplish a goal. And while I agree that that's the case for most writing, I think it's not absolutely necessary. There is plenty of writing out there that's pretty light on (or completely lacking) plot and instead focusing on something else - world-building, poetic prose, being a vehicle for the authors philosophical discussions, you name it. With erotica, I'd argue that the principle goal is not necessarily telling a compelling story but rather *getting the audience off* (and indeed getting the author off). That's not to say that there is no well-plotted TG TF fiction out there, because there certainly is. I'd just say that it's not a requirement. One could even argue (i.e. I will) that when someone's fetish involves wanting to experience the feeling of total and absolute helplessness, then the protagonist can't be allowed to have a goal to pursue. A goal gives hope for change, and so kinda cancels out the hopeless helplessness. At most, the goal could be the protagonist trying to figure out their place in their new situation and somehow come to terms with it. So an internal journey rather than an external one.
I don't think we actually disagree all that much on the basic literary theory here, at least not enough that an argument about the place of plot in erotica or the agency of the protagonist is going to yield much productive fruit in regards to the story here. That said, it does seem pretty clear that we certainly *do* have a direction we want this story to be going, at least in the short term (Heck, that's kinda the *point* of the whole transformation masochism thing here, I think, in that we need to keep up a clear, terrible-in-a-sexy-way end state for all this stuff we're doing to Jon). NGL, I actually have quite a few uncertainties and reservations about writing through what said end state actually is in all its gory detail. In the abstract, as it is now, it's great, mostly defined by a vague feeling of impending regrets, lowkey sexual abuse, and that sweet TG angst, buuuut when that sort of thing becomes concrete and we actually have to have Sue living it I'm not convinced its actually gonna be quite like that. Part of me even thinks it might be worth it to call it quits and cry *"FIN"* before we actually get to that point in the story specifically so we can keep it all as nebulous and uncomplicated fantasy material, left up to the reader's (and author's) imagination. But let's assume we don't do that. What, concretely, happens then? If ya ask me, the biggest concrete detail acting as a switch case for all the possible branches from here is what happens to the stone, so let's start with that, hypothesize what happens if it goes where. The most obvious thing to happen with the stone is that John/Sue just holds onto it through everything and uses it as they see fit. Honestly, man, I don't think you're seeing why this case presents such a huuuuuge problem with the fantasy for me. Think: Once Jon loses his masochistic fantasies once and for all, and is feeling all this regret and remorse over all the everything he did and thinking lucidly about how to solve Sue's current problems, he's still going to have the stone. And bluntly, man, if you have a problem that you can't think of a way to solve with the stone, it's almost always going to be because you weren't thinking hard enough rather than because the stone can't do it. As long as he has the stone and can effectively use it, there's always going to be *some* way out of Jon's present predicaments: he could switch minds with Sue's nephew, the copy of his original self. He could time travel and prevent the wishes from being made in the first place. He could replace David with another more husband more suitable to Sue's tastes, and give David a wife more suitable to his. He could force Sue into an exercise regimen that he magically guarantees will eventually give Sue the lithe, slender body she wants. He could do just ***so many things*** with just a little outside-the-box creative thinking, as long as he still has the stone and can use it effectively. And for us the authors, who really want him to be hopelessly stuck in Sue's body and life with no way out, that's a big problem. If we insist that he still keeps the stone anyway, then at some point before he loses his masochistic fetish we basically have to make sure he'll no longer be able to use it effectively, somehow. The other branch introduced the "Josephine" alter ego for specifically that purpose, and I figured having Sue behave poorly in the face of temptation was a step in the right direction in this one; maybe we even have a "David Interprets" branch where her husband gets power over the wishes, idk. Just *something* to make it less of a get-out-of-jail-free card for Sue. The second most obvious thing to do is to just get rid of the stone. Have it stolen by magpies or unwisely wished away by a horny Jon or smashed with a sledgehammer or however we want to write it out. This is definitely the way to make sure Jon is 100% inescapably trapped as Sue forever, but honestly I kinda don't like this idea because as soon as it happens, this narrative is going to hard right turn out of TF Highway and into Slice-of-Life avenue. You're absolutely right in that more-or-less plotless Slices of Life are not a bad thing in and of themselves, but if you ask me to do it right you really need exceptionally interesting settings or circumstances to carry the writing, and right now Sue is kiiinda just your average everyday housewife in your average everyday small town, albeit curvier and prettier than most housewives (no matter how much she may deny it). It doesn't even really make for much sexytime unless Amber and Lucy are away or asleep, *and* David or Sue happen to be in the mood, at least if we wanted this to be a healthy sort of relationship where boundaries are respected and so forth. But what if... it wasn't?
PS. Honestly, I figure keeping Jon always somewhat horny is more convenient at an authorial level at least for now; if he goes lucid, he'll probably start acting rationally, and if he starts acting rationally, it means masochistic sexy fun times'll be over unless we've already worked in another means to force the situation. Said "means" could be David, I think, which is what I figured I'd work in here. We'd need something like that if this goes on past the 20 minute mark when David gets home anyway, unless we really shift the focus and tone of this thing once that happens. (BTW, was figuring at first that once the 20 minute thing kicks in Jon'd probably be more lucid and less horny as a rule, since obviously-terrible ideas wouldn't be tickling him so much.) At least, such is how things are in my own estimation. There's *probably* some other way of handling things that I'm not clever enough to see atm, and I get the feeling you have something in mind already; I'm curious to see what that'd be. Happy Writing, man!
(cont.) If you ask me, the obvious and probably sexiest direction to go with this sort of masochistic fantasy is to give David the stone and rework him into being the central antagonist of the branch. We already have a masochistic, submissive wife, so why not a sadistic, dominant husband? It's already established that he has a handful of wish-induced boundary issues with Sue, particularly in regards to her tits, ass, and height, so it seems natural to take that and go even further with him as a character that way. If *he* has the stone, he absolutely could trap Jon hopelessly into Sue's life, forever, and pile effect after wish-induced effect onto his wife even after she's lost all masochistic interest in taking that fantasy any further. Sue, in effect, might become his unwilling sexual plaything through and through, depending on how far we want David's conscience to allow him to go. I dunno about you, but that's a thought that definitely gets my blood pumping. If you're comfortable writing villains this path is pretty solidly my first choice of direction for the branch, I'll say. My solid second choice of direction for the stone in the branch is a lot more off-the-wall: have it end up in the hands of Jon the Nephew, the clone of Jon's original self (maybe by way of Karyn, whom I note was *not* included in the wish to have no recollection of the stone). This is probably the most narratively intriguing possible future for the branch in that it gives Jon an outsider's perspective on his own changes, and via the bodyswap trick I mentioned above a partial way out for Sue and partial way *in* for Jon the Nephew. It would certainly be the most philosophically interesting and could lead naturally to the most introspection Jon's going to have in any of the futures if that's what we're wanting... oooor we could just make it a case of a horny teenage boy having a crush on his hot but oddly relatable aunt in town. Or both. Or we start the madness all over again with a different-yet-same TF masochistic at the helm. I don't know what exactly the details here would even be, but honestly that's what makes it all the more fun to contemplate, says I. And I guess there's some fun to be had if the stone ends up in someone else's hands, like one of Sue's daughters (Amber or Lucy) or Sue's sister/Jon's mother Linda, or someone else even farther afield, but, meh... I can't really think of a way to handle that which wouldn't be like starting a whole new branch from scratch. The possibility is there if you see something fun there, though. Ofc we could have the stone trading hands around even more, but the only use case I can think for this at present would be if we wanted some consensual TF shenanigans between David and Sue. That's about it in terms of possible destinations for the stone. And the thing is, that's kinda just one detail that determines how the story's going to play out, with each possibility needing some forethought and advance planning if the story's going to go as well as it can. It isn't a problem yet, and it won't be until the 20 minute safety valve kicks in, when the stone *really* needs to be away from a lucid Sue imo. But the thing is, like it or not, we *do* have an arc in progress, which we *do* want to steer to its best natural conclusion from here, even if Jon really doesn't. You get me, man? Plans can (and probably should) change as things go on, but that doesn't mean we just shouldn't have one, right?
As for the stone - I'm well aware that if Jon keeps the stone with him, the moment the 20 mins pass he *will* try to remedy his situation. So I was thinking that his plan is, as you also mentioned, to wish the stone away to his 'nephew' the new Jon. Maybe even with a proviso that Sue is excluded from the blanket memory adjustment happening when wishes are made, just so that he can stay aware of anything the new Jon might be up to with the stone. This way, "the way out" would be simultaneously close enough to give Jon/Sue some direction to their actions while also not being so close it's too easy for them to find a way out. And while I do see the appeal of David getting the hold of the stone I honestly feel like that might remove the attention from Jon really sinking into Sue's life. Instead we'd just keep escalating things instead of really exploring the emotional and practical landscape of how things have worked out. Sure, wishing is fun, but it's the *consequences* of those wishes that are the interesting bit! Ultimately, what I'd ideally like to see is Jon getting defeated in a *"Fuck. I guess this is my life now."* way. Shit but stable.
Alright... Thanks for all that, actually, with that it now seems like we have a pretty solid plan moving forward. The second phase slice-of-life might be tough or present some unexpected difficulties, but I'm sure we can roll with it. Do you wanna do the honors of writing that sister episode or should I?
Yeah I'll do it. I'm just a bit short on time lately but might get to it on Sunday.
> he starts acting rationally, it means masochistic sexy fun times'll be over Sure. And who says that's a bad thing? It might be not fun for Jon any more but it can still be fun for *us*, the readers and writers. I, for one, would love the story to take a darker turn once Jon realises just how much he has fucked himself over and that there is pretty much no way out. Not because I like to see people suffer, but rather that's how I'd design my own magical TG experience if I had the power to do so. Like, honestly, most if not all of the wishes I'll make Jon wish upon himself in this storyline are something I'd wish upon myself when designing my perfect future life. Even with the full awareness that once my current high is over there will be only regret left. Maybe even *because* I know that regret will be there. The only thing I'd change was I wouldn't make myself a MILF but instead a naive, young woman, still not used to what womanhood means and thinking of herself mostly as a girl. But hey, that was dictated by the starting conditions of this storyline so I won't argue.
Lot's of interesting thoughts there! And I'm really enjoying having this discussion - it's getting me even more hyped to see where things will go with this story. > NGL, I actually have quite a few uncertainties and reservations about writing through what said end state actually is in all its gory detail. In the abstract, as it is now, it's great, mostly defined by a vague feeling of impending regrets, lowkey sexual abuse, and that sweet TG angst, buuuut when that sort of thing becomes concrete and we actually have to have Sue living it I'm not convinced its actually gonna be quite like that. It's fair enough that you have your hesitations about the post-masochist-stage of the story. I can totally see how just writing Sue's Slice-of-Life might be not that fun if we're deprived of the novelty of the experience of Jon putting himself on a trajectory to being her. Not only that but I can totally see how it could get depressing *and* boring. So in that way, similarly to you I also thought that once Jon is completely replaced by Sue we can just drop the curtain and say "And so he/she lived kinda unhappily ever after".. That said, imho, Jon doesn't become Sue at the moment he passes the 20 minute mark. At that point he only gains two of her characteristics - not being interested in masochistically designing a regretful life for himself/herself and not finding the female body sexually attractive. There'd be still plenty of other elements of 'Sueness' that Jon needs to acquire. And one of his previous wishes made sure it would happen at various points over the next 24 hours. Also, he still retains his own memories as his main memory set, so for full intents and purposes I consider him Jon, albeit with an increasing number of Sue's mental characteristics that he has to get used to. The way I see the story go, could be essentially split into two phases: the remainder of the wishtravaganza 20 minutes, and then a day or so of Jon's journey of descending into Sue, the horror and struggle of trying to come to terms with the kind of fate he foolishly choose, as different aspects of her life start manifesting in him one by one. Kinda like a roller-coaster which starts with being pulled to the highest point, and then launches you into the wild experience of the unknown of the ride.
Ok, so the busyness has piled up way higher than I anticipated. I **will** get to this though!
Hey, I might try and add to this soon if you guys don't mind! Love your work! My idea is to have Jon wish that his new husband, mother, Karyn, and Zoe know he really was Jon and not Sue, either from some imagined accident or intentionally. I think it adds to the humiliation if people know Jon isn't a horny milf, but can't help but act like one. And it gives him some directive as his family might try and help them out but judge him for being so lewd. I think this would establish the husband as the antagonist, who has the stone, who isn't willing to give up his amazing life and wonderfully, sexy wife. I think Karyn should be the friend who wants to help, mom be the type of person who secretly enjoys it since she has a new friend, and Zoe who just finds it hilarious after the full effects kick in. What do yall think?
@Mary If ya got a good idea and are in the mood, always feel free to write a continuation of my stuff! It means way more to me than just upvotes or anything like that.